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Fair

Posted on Tuesday, October 14th, 2008

Dave!Is same-sex marriage a right to ones pursuit of happiness? Or is same-sex marriage the end of the universe? I honestly don't know. It's hard to say which it is when marriage can be so many things to so many people.

Marriage can be marrying somebody for money.

Marriage can be marrying somebody for citizenship.

Marriage can be marrying somebody for power.

Marriage can be marrying somebody for obligation.

Marriage can be marrying somebody for security.

Marriage can be marrying somebody for image.

Marriage can be marrying somebody for convenience.

Marriage can be hundreds of things that have nothing to do with love, but it's all okay under the eyes of the law.

Yet California's "Marriage Protection Act" Proposition 8 is saying two people who are actually in love shouldn't be able to get married if they have the same genitalia. That's not "protecting marriage"... it's discrimination against two tax-paying, consenting adults. And it's not fair. If people born straight get to marry who they want, then that same right should extend to people born gay or else it's discrimination. It doesn't matter what anybody believes, it's about what's fair.

DAVETOON: Lil' Dave and Bad Monkey holding signs saying vote no on prop 8.

Fair is good.

We need more good things in the world right now.

I hope voters in California think so too.

Get the facts.


Categories: DaveToons 2008Click To It: Permalink
   

Comments

  1. kapgar says:

    I only wish I could vote on this.

    You would think that the 51% divorce rate amongst heterosexual marriages would be enough evidence to convince people that something is wrong and that we should actually allow those that seem to truly love each other to give it a go and restore the true meaning of marriage which, as I’ve interpreted it, is simply the union of two people who give a damn about each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together. Must be my naivete.

  2. Sid says:

    Doesn’t the world have bigger problems then whether or not 2 guys or 2 girls want to marry each other.

    Why should we care! let them

    is it going to make our lives worse? NO
    is it going to give them more rights then anyone else? NO
    Does it mean they get to cut in front of the hetrosexual couples in line at the supermarket? NO

    does it mean 2 same sex adults wanting the same rights and benefits had by straight couples? yes
    should that bother us? NO.

    lifes too short to be worrying about what others are doing in their personal lives since what they are doing is not affecting YOU!

    hmmm i wonder if the next vote will be on legalizing Gay divorces… :-)

  3. I think anyone who wants to should be allowed to be married as long as both are adults and both are consenting. I personally probably wouldn’t get married again because the idea of being tied to someone forever sort of makes my chest feel all tight and makes it hard for me to breathe. That doesn’t mean I think marriage is horrible and I really can’t explain why I feel that way so I probably should have left it at my first sentence for the comment. I guess I mean that I’d rather someone be with me because they are making a conscious choice every day to be with me than to have them be with me because they are tied to me by a piece of paper. But anyone who wants that piece of paper should be allowed to have it no matter what gender each of them is.

  4. A Lewis says:

    It’s for the sex. Only the sex. No, wait….let me think a minute here….

  5. Amanda says:

    I agree. I really wish I could vote on this one

  6. stef says:

    i really wish i lived in california so i could vote on proposition 8. (vote “no” that is.) but alas, i live in ohio, and more specifically, cincinnati. mark twain is attributed as having stated that when the end of the world arrives, he wanted to be in cincinnati because it’s 20 years behind the times.

    essentially, 20 years from now, conservative cincinnatians will begin to whisper “didja hear? there’s people who actually WANT TO MARRY people of the same gender!”

    (okay, perhaps that’s unfair and exaggerating a bit. but it FEELS like it might be true.)

  7. Lora says:

    Honestly, this issue is the only reason I am voting in this election. Not one person has been able to make a credible case to me why gay marriage is wrong. I will be voting “no” to offset my chiropractor’s “yes” vote…he had the nerve to preach to me during an appointment. I was so shocked I made sure I was registered that day!

  8. diane says:

    I am cracking up at Stef’s comment b/c I used to live in Cincinnati and…uh yeah, it’s totally true. :)
    Also wishing I could go to California and vote no…

  9. Lee says:

    I was very ashamed that my state (Michigan) voted for an amendment banning gay marriage and “other similar unions”, so now we effectively ban marriage *and* civil unions between same sex partners. Some state and municipal institutions (including the Ann Arbor School District) were immediately sued for giving health benefits to same sex partners of employees. Stupid.

    Good luck California. I, myself, would love to see at least one state vote this crap down.

  10. this is quite possibly the most perfect post that i have ever read.

  11. Poppy says:

    Why would anyone get married for love?

  12. B.E. Earl says:

    Once again, great post! And those video ads were great.

  13. metalmom says:

    I wish I could vote on it. I want everyone to have the opportunity for marriage and all that goes along with it.

  14. Naomi says:

    I’m actually agreeing with the Bible-thumpers on this one… Marriage in the eyes of God, blah, blah, blah is between a man and a woman. Okay fine.

    Seperation of church and state and all that jazz, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    So really, NO ONE should be able to be legally married. For a government to recognize it–hence it being legal–it would just be a civil union having nothing to do with religion (or gender), but then if you call a spade a spade people start freaking out. Just do away with the lot of it, I say. I did it just to appease my husband–he fell for the mass hysteria of needing a label for the relationship…

    If anything, it’s people who choose to remain single that need to start speaking up for their rights!

  15. Em says:

    You must not have children. If you had to explain it to a child you’d feel different.

  16. Dave2 says:

    If I had children, I’d want to know that if they were gay they’d be able to have the same right to marry as if they were straight. Try swapping out “gay” with some other trait and see how it works out for you…

    “If you have brown eyes, you can’t get married.”
    “If you are over 6-feet tall, you can’t get married.”
    “If you have freckles, you can’t get married.”
    “If you have allergies, you can’t get married.”

    It’s a lot easier to explain marriage as “any two people who love each other and want to be a family” than “two people with the genetic disposition of being heterosexual wanting to be together as a family because it saves on taxes” (or whatever).

  17. sizzle says:

    I posted about this same thing on my blog today. I already knew that we were on the same page. (YAY!)

  18. Finn says:

    Yes, yes, YES!

    And you didn’t even have to touch me. Wow.

  19. Sorata says:

    A to the men!

    I mean… amen.

  20. Finn says:

    Em –

    I have a child and I don’t know how to explain to him that you can get married in a drive-thru and then get unmarried several hours later because you were too drunk to know what you were doing.

    Trust me when I tell you that kids get it — usually much easier than the adults do.

  21. Arwen says:

    I am calling BS on Em. I have a 7 year old and we have explained it to her and it wasn’t hard because when you have small children you talk about love and not sex. They get love. The only reason they wouldn’t get two people loving each other is because you have told them the two people shouldn’t love or because they haven’t experienced two people loving each other. Either way, I feel for the kid.

  22. Kris says:

    Em, I DO have kids and explained it to them just fine. (They’re 8 and 11 by the way.) They only think it’s “wrong” if adults tell them so. We only know what we’re taught and until we’re of the age to challenge those thoughts with ::gasp:: our OWN INDIVIDUAL thoughts, we’re going to stay in the mindset of the past. If that were the case, we’d have no medical advances at all. Germs? No such thing! Artificial limbs? Well that’s just against nature! Replacing a human heart with pig valves? BLASPHEMY! Saving a premature baby’s life by using artificial respiration? God intended that baby to die! Let it! (Surely you see this is an exaggeration, but along the same lines, nonetheless.)

    I actually have a girl friend who got married to a man. He had a sex change operation, so I guess technically now they’re in a same sex marriage. So what of them?

  23. Naomi says:

    Em–I have 2 kids. I’ve never forced hetero or gay relationship perceptions to either of them. When you raise your children to not have contempt for people different than them, it’s actually really easy to explain that same gender couples want to marry. In fact, the hard part is trying to answer when their only question is why won’t the government let them.

  24. Michelle says:

    I don’t care about gay marriage. I just wanted to say that Molly Ringwald’s husband is hot.

  25. I do have children. I had no problem explaining it to my son. He was incensed that not everyone who loved each other had the right to be married, and he was 11 at the time. He’s not gay, but has gay friends at school. He’s 17 now and quite sure that it’s ridiculous that this debate even happens. I agree with the above commenters – what, exactly, is it taking away from heterosexual people? I feel very strongly about this but better get off my soapbox before I get carried away! Suffice it to say I wish we didn’t have to vote on this at all, but since we do I wish I could cast mine.

  26. Faiqa says:

    I would much rather explain the concept of gay marriage to my child than why I acted like a bigot when I had the opportunity to assert that *every* American in this country deserves equal protection under the law. This nation is only as strong as the conviction with which we protect each other from oppression.

  27. Dave I think I might be in love with you.
    Wonderful post.

  28. Chris says:

    Well I was going to vote yes, but since Bad Monkey tells me to vote no that’s what I’ll do. You know I can’t resist the commands of your monkey Dave!

  29. annie says:

    The fricken toilet seat that’s always left up is a bigger threat to my marriage than some gay couple somewhere.

  30. Tug says:

    Love is love, bottom line. Who the hell are we to judge? If people, no matter the persuasion, want to get married, I’m all for it; much luck to them all.

  31. Sue says:

    People are still confusing the religious institution of marriage with the governmental institution of marriage. Like it or not, it’s not GOD that marries you in the US, it’s the government. Who hand’s out the licenses? Who gives you the rights of benefits, name change, tax credits? It’s not your church! (Surprise)

    I had a much longer comment but figured that was two posts themselves so I let it go. I really wish I was in Cali right now, but nope, stuck here in PA (which many parts are very much like Cincinnati). haha

  32. Michelle says:

    Will this make gay marriage legal in California or just keep making it illegal out of their constitution?

    It’s amazing to me how uptight and judgemental some Americans are. How they think they should have the right to enforce their beliefs on other Americans. It’s a sad state.

    I’m hoping more and more states will allow gay marriage and that over time everyone will come to see it as an inalienable right and part of the American dream. We need to learn to live without discrimination and hate for those that are different then ourselves. And realize that those differences are what makes America Great.

  33. Whit says:

    What? Gay people want to marry? Next thing you know they’ll want to vote! Where will it end? Oh, the humanity.

  34. Greeneyezz says:

    Dave,
    That’s an excellent perspective! Many People *really* do have their *own* agenda for wanting to get married, and unfortunately, some of those reasons are not because they want to *love, honor, and cherish* for the rest of their lives.

    And even the people who are *against* same-sex marriage, have their *own* agenda behind that.
    It doesn’t matter *What* their perspective is…whether they are citing ‘scripture from the bible’, or their ‘concern’ for AIDS, or (heaven forbid) that will make the children around them Gay too, as if it is contagious like the flue, they are *still* operating under their *own* agenda.
    Show me a Serious Homophobic, and I will show you someone who either is completely unable to think for themselves (Chameolon-like in their thinking), or someone who’s had an ‘experience’ sometime in their life that they are vehemently denying, even to themselves. Almost a “Lady Doth Protest To Much” kind of thing.

    ~ZZ

    P.S.
    I got your Tweet. If that ‘hate commen’ was meant for this post, why delete it?
    I say Bring it on!

    :)

  35. Tracy says:

    Amen & hallelujah. ‘Nuff said.

  36. ChillyWilly says:

    I read every single comment above (before I posted mine and before Dave2 approved others), but wanted to say “Yay” for the pure and simple humanity in people.

    As with sizzle, I posted on No on Prop 8 last week due to my strong feelings against it. The lies that people are being told on this and what “will happen” if gays are allowed to marry. Like the one ad above shows, nothing happens to a hetero couple when gays are allowed to be married. Their kids are not going to be forced into being gay. It simply means everyone is equal.

    Great post, Dave. And one subject that I was waiting for you to post on.

  37. They have some kind of nonsense on the ballot here in Florida about “defining” marriage as 1 man and 1 woman. WTF?? Are we really that backwards? Hell I think everyone should be able to join us married people in the taxes, and the insurance company ripping us off on priemiums, and all that other crap we marrieds go through. Come and join us I say be you man and man, man and woman, or woman and woman! Definitions are for the dictionary, not people.

  38. zenmom says:

    Awesome post. I AM in California. And I WILL be voting NO on Prop. 8. I’ve also “borrowed” these awesome videos for my own blog on the subject. Thank you!

  39. Hilly says:

    The thing I don’t understand is why people that are homophobic absolutely *have* to make such a big deal out of this. The gays are now in relationships, living together, having sex (*gasp*) and all of the other things that partners usually do. What is the freaking big deal about letting them get married? I mean, it’s not as if a gay marriage is going to suddenly spin the world off of its axis and cause it to rain fire. They’ll be doing the same thing as the day before but at least they’ll have basic relationship rights.

    And no one better throw this “abomination in the eyes of God” crap at me either. Unless you ARE God, I don’t want to hear it.

    Go go gay marriage!

  40. Mooselet says:

    I did a blog post along the same lines last week, although I had no clue about the California thing. I don’t care who any consenting adult sleeps with – men, women or both – all I care about is if they are decent people. As I said in my post, I’d take a neighbourhood of upstanding homosexuals over a neighbourhood of asshole hetros any day of the week.

    And I hate the “spare the children” argument. A male/female relationship does not automatically equal outstanding parenting. Kids get it, it’s some adults that have the problem and need to get over themselves.

  41. Don says:

    I just want the courts to uphold my right to same-sex divorce. That dumb ass keeps coming back for more stuff. It’s over already!

  42. Peggy Archer says:

    Polls are showing that 8 is probably going to go down in flames.

    I hope so.

  43. Lisa says:

    This Californian agrees with your post. Very well said Dave2. Thanks.

    Signed,
    Heterosexual, currently single, formerly married for 17 years mother of three. If any of my children were homosexual and in a committed relationship, I would hope they’d be able to feel that wonderful bond of marriage I was able to experience.

  44. Dickie Maxx says:

    Dave you rock for posting this. It is an awesome post but more over I really value all the caring people who have stood up for their gay friends and family. Every time I hear about someone who is not gay supporting us it makes me want to throw a huge party when this is all over just to thank those kind people who show love for their friends.

  45. Sarah says:

    I’m voting no on prop 8.

    But my friend is voting yes, and I can’t change her mind.

    I just hope that there are more people like me and less people like her in this election.

  46. When I was younger I used to almost envy people with faith… mostly because so many of them seemed to draw comfort and strength from their religion.
    But the more we see of the world the more we realize just how much bigotry, discrimination and hatred religiously motivated people like to disguise in the name of their so called faith. Quite frankly this sort of prejudice and arrogance (who the hell has the right to tell someone who they can and can not love!) makes me proud to be a Godless heathen.

    As for Prop 8 etc? Watch out America… you’re no where near as ‘free’ as you’d like the rest of the known world to think you are.

  47. Brandon says:

    Though I’m bummed I don’t get to vote for governor, I am glad that we’re still registered in California so I get to vote against this stupid initiative. I sure do hope it gets voted down.

  48. Crail says:

    Very well written post and great comments.

    There is a commercial running right now, sponsored by the Right Wing (my terminology) that suggests that, if Prop 8 fails, churches and church property may be taxed. It would be my suggestion that, if Prop 8 does pass, they should be taxed.

    Separation of church and state comes to mind.

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